Atlas Obscura CEO Louise Story chats with director, actor, screenwriter, and podcast host Rhym Guissé to discuss the process behind creating Charlie’s Place – a new Atlas Obscura podcast co-produced with Rococo Punch in partnership with Pushkin Industries and Visit Myrtle Beach – that tells the story of Charlie Fitzgerald and his mission to turn a Myrtle Beach nightclub into a place of unity and community-building during the Jim Crow era. Available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, and more. Listen on the Atlas Obscura website and access all episode transcripts here.
The conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
Louise Story: The first thing I want to ask is how you became interested in “Charlie’s Place.” Had you known about it or did you just learn of it recently?
Rhym Guissé: Myrtle Beach brought me on to this project because they know I’ve done a lot of social justice work before, so I was really aligned. I didn’t know what to expect, but I absolutely fell in love with the community and the story. And I really also loved the initiative of wanting to revive the history and revive the community, because this was such an incredible story that was almost lost to time, quite frankly.
Story: That’s interesting. You mentioned you’ve done a lot of social justice work and content around social justice. Can you tell us about some of the things you’re most proud of in that space?
Guissé: Oh, my gosh. Most proud of – that’s so challenging to say, because it’s like choosing your favorite child. All of my storytelling work really centers around the concept of identity, and it has roots of social justice in it. My short film Cartes is about undocumented African immigrants. I’m really proud of it because when I wrote the story and made the film, I didn’t think it would be so timely and so relevant. Just in the last couple of months, it’s completely catapulted. There have been a lot of anti-immigrant feelings globally leading up to this moment, particularly in Europe and the United States, which I think is why we landed here today with these policies that are anti-immigration. I hope [the film] opens a discourse for us all to just start talking about this.
Story: Indeed, so in our new podcast with you, “Charlie’s Place,” you mentioned that you and your parents are immigrants. Tell me more about your immigration story and experience, and how that affected how you looked at “Charlie’s Place.”
Guissé: Oh, absolutely. So, my parents and I immigrated to the States. We moved to Louisiana – the South. So my first American experience was in the Black South of Louisiana, Baton Rouge. My first experience in America as it pertains to cultural specificity is Louisiana, is the South, you know, and every southern state really has its own culture. So, South Carolina and Louisiana, I wouldn’t say are the same, but there are so many similarities. Particularly the older Black generation, right? How they comfort themselves, and how they move and navigate through life in the South. I saw similarities when I went to Myrtle Beach.
Story: And how did your immigrant experience in Louisiana affect your understanding of Myrtle Beach?
Guissé: I think that really helped me understand how to code-switch – how to assimilate. It allowed me to listen better when I was doing my interviews in Myrtle Beach and find commonalities with the locals, who are all really just gems, you know, who have endured so much. And these are stories that I had also heard in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, which I think connects so much throughout the South with these incredible stories of Black entrepreneurs who were doing fantastically. And then, unfortunately, there were a lot of folks who were for Jim Crow and against this kind of progression.
Story: In listening to your interviews, I could hear how much you connected with the people, and how much it seemed like it gave you satisfaction to include their voices and the way they were thinking about things. Could you talk about one or two of the people who you met along the way who you enjoyed getting to know and including in the podcast?
Guissé: Absolutely. There were so many incredible people. I think the two that resonated with me the most just happened to be the ones that I spoke to the most – the first, is definitely Miss Pat.
Story: In case people are reading this and they haven’t listened yet, can you tell us who Miss Pat is?
Guissé: Miss Pat is someone who was born on The Hill, grew up on The Hill, and during her developmental childhood years, Charlie’s Place was there. She lived down the street from the nightclub, actually. And she really had the most vivid memories of that time, and was able to give us much more insight on what The Hill was like then. She really was able to describe everything in such a way that I hadn’t heard anybody else describe – a lot of affection, but also a lot of crazy stories because she was a kid. She went to the Colored School, and she helped preserve it. The Colored School was the only school at the time in the 1930s and ‘40s that Black kids in the neighborhood could go to.
Story: Who is your other most memorable person?
Guissé: Dino was really fun. Dino was this young Greek kid. His dad actually owned the Kozy Korner, which was a coffee shop. And this was during segregation, of course. So, Charlie was the first Black man to be able to sit down in there and have a meal. And that was shocking for everybody.
Story: Why could Charlie sit down there when other Black people could not?
Guissé: I have theories. I think part of it is that Charlie was light-skinned, so he was a little bit white-passing. I think that was one reason. The other reason also is he was so powerful and influential that it’s kind of like, who’s going to stand up to him, you know what I mean? Or why bother?
Story: Right. It sounds like Charlie was a real exception to social norms of the time.
Guissé: That’s right. He was the exception to the rule. Absolutely. And he was also in business with powerful people in town.
Story: I agree it was gripping hearing what Dino has to say about Charlie in the podcast. So, one more question. Why should people listen to this podcast?
Guissé: There are so many great reasons to listen to this, but I think the biggest reason is to learn about how a small town in South Carolina can be so similar to other towns. There are a lot of similarities with people going about their lives but wanting more for themselves. It’s about reinventing yourself. Charlie did that to get a better life. And that really is also the immigrant story. The Black story of wanting a better life in this country is no different than the white story of wanting a better life, no different than the immigrant story of wanting a better life. So this dream, this American dream, was a throughline. And whether people bought into it or not, I don’t know – but I think people should listen to it so that they can see the similarities and be inspired.
These people endured crazy obstacles, but they overcame them. They overcame so many hurdles, including segregation. Miss Pat’s stories are really heart-wrenching, but she’s still a positive person to this day. She learned to look at the good side of life, and I think that’s a lesson we can all learn from.