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Dylan Thuras: I love The X-Files. It is one of my favorite TV shows of all time. As of this recording, it debuted 31 years ago, which, God, makes me feel old. But here’s the thing about The X-Files. As a TV show, just like the writing, the plotting, it’s pretty hit or miss, to be honest. But as a concept, as a thing that entered my brain as an 11-year-old, it is near perfection. It ticks every possible box. It’s got rogue FBI agents, black goo, swamp monsters. It’s got government conspiracies about alien abduction, CIA disinformation. It has a group of hackers called the Lone Gunmen trying to help them. There’s the shadowy cigarette-smoking man trying to stop them. It is just, it is everything you could want.
But most importantly, for our story today, it had a healthy focus on the world’s most iconic secret base, Area 51. So I want you to picture this as an X-Files cold open. We see a lone researcher sleeping fitfully. It’s a man in his 60s. He’s got a long beard and a ponytail. He’s in a small desert home way out there in the middle of nowhere, the edge of nothing. But inside the home, it’s filled with radio scanners, computers, and photo equipment. And the scanners are active. They’re listening to this radio chatter from a secret Air Force base just a few dozen miles away. Suddenly, bang, bang, bang. Over a dozen FBI agents in full riot gear come crashing into the house, and the researcher is abruptly awoken. He sleepily stumbles into his mudroom to find agents with their shields up, their guns drawn. He’s handcuffed. They’re there because they think the researcher has seen something he should not have seen. It’s a good episode opening, you know? This is classic X-Files stuff. But here’s the thing. That scene is not from an episode of the X-Files. It is a true story.
Joerg Arnu: I’m looking at probably about six people, guns drawn, pointed at me, a riot shield in front of them in full riot gear, helmets on, bulletproof vests and all, the whole nine yards, in my hallway. And I’m like, I couldn’t think of anything better to say, what are you guys doing in my hall?
I’m Dylan Thuras, and this is Atlas Obscura, a celebration of the world’s strange, incredible, highly classified places. Today, we walk a dangerous path. I promise you, I am not becoming a conspiracist, but we are gonna take a little visit to the patch of desert known at various times as Paradise Ranch or Dreamland Resort, or as most people know it, Area 51, to try and find out where The X-Files ends and the actual truth begins.
This is an edited transcript of the Atlas Obscura Podcast: a celebration of the world’s strange, incredible, and wondrous places. Find the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major podcast apps.
Dylan: So this all started when I went on a podcast called Panic World, hosted by journalist Ryan Broderick. Ryan and I both love The X-Files, and we had this big conversation all about Area 51. It’s really worth a listen. But this conversation led me to another conversation, a conversation with the man that you heard at the top of the show. He is a German immigrant, he’s a programmer, and I would say he is the premier Area 51 expert in the world. His name is Joerg Arnu. Today, Jeorg lives in Rachel, Nevada, right outside of Area 51. To me, he legitimately seems like a real-life member of the Lone Gunmen. He grew up in Germany and he was living in Berlin the day the wall fell.
Jeorg: You wake up to—the radio comes on and the news is playing and they talk about people going back and forth across the border, which was a total no-no before that.
Dylan: Suddenly, years of government lies, and secrecy, and security, just evaporated.
Jeorg: And we were like, what is going on? Is this a play? Is that, you know, like, War of the Worlds kind of a thing? Is that just a play? No, it was real. We all went to the wall, you know, I took a hammer and a screwdriver and I picked off little pieces of the wall. It was an unbelievable rush that day.
Dylan: Not long after this, Jeorg decided it was time for a big change.
Jeorg: It has always been my dream to come to the United States. I live here. So in ’95, when I was 33 years old, I decided, okay, I’m not gonna get any younger. I am going to do it.
Dylan: Jeorg is a software developer. So he came to the U.S. and got a job in Silicon Valley. It was during the first dot-com boom and life was good. He was making money, he was living in the U.S. and at night he could go home and watch his favorite TV show.
Jeorg: I was a total X-Files fan. I watched every episode. I have all the DVDs.
Dylan: As you might’ve picked up, Jeorg’s a curious guy. And he’s watching The X-Files, and he realizes he’s not that far from this mythical place they talk about in the show. And one day, Jeorg decides to drive down to the desert and take a little peek at the real Area 51.
Jeorg: I was just curious, what is this all about? You hear about Area 51. There’s some movies about it. I wanted to see it for myself. We came up here and it was actually the day after Christmas, 1998. Then we get to the boundary and there’s security guards watching us and the cameras, they are watching us. There’s signs that say, you can’t go any further. You will get shot if you go any further. So, as I drive down this dirt road towards the border of Area 51, the mystery just grabbed me.
Dylan: Jeorg had planned this all as basically a day trip. 26 years later, he’s still there. If you ask me, this is the real danger of Area 51. Peer a little too closely and it gets you.
Jeorg: I’m finding out all these things. I want to share this. I want to share this with other people. So I started my Dreamland Resort website. Literally sitting, camping out in the back of my SUV.
Dylan: Dreamlandresort.com. It’s named after the restricted airspace around Area 51. They called that Dreamland. And to me, this site, it’s like, it’s perfect. It’s yellow text, black background, HTML, ’90s style website. And I suspect many listeners right now are maybe getting nervous. Nervous about Jeorg, nervous about me, about the credibility of all this. But maybe the thing I found so interesting about Jeorg and his site was that it’s all—it’s actually pretty boring. It’s mostly a collection of what we do know about Area 51, all the stuff that’s been declassified. It’s a lot of history, a lot of minutiae. A good example of what is on the site is an exhaustive list of the planes, they call the Janets, that they use to fly workers from the Las Vegas airport into Area 51. In a lot of ways, Jeorg is closer to a train buff than Fox Mulder.
Jeorg: I leave the hype and all the UFO stories and all that good stuff to other. And I focus on the real stuff, the real Area 51 that I call it.
Dylan: And so I think here we have to ask, what are they doing out there? Is it … you know? No, no, it’s not.
Jeorg: I am not a believer, I’m a skeptic. If tonight that UFO mothership landed in my front yard, I will gladly change my belief. But for now, until I see evidence, I am a skeptic.
Dylan: Jeorg is not a believer. So let’s assume for a moment that it is not aliens, no UFOs out there. What is Area 51, like for real?
Jeorg: Well, in one sentence: In Area 51, they develop technology that is keeping our country safe. That is the purpose of Area 51. That includes the development of new aircraft, unmanned AI-controlled drones, radar systems, developing secret technology that keeps us safe in a potential conflict.
Dylan: An easy rule of thumb is that Area 51, starting all the way back in the 1950s, has always primarily been a place to test secret stuff that flies. Imagine something like a black ops NASA. You’ve got men smoking cigarettes in aviators and buzz cuts. They’re flying these weird looking planes at Mach 3 going 90,000 feet into the air. They’re launching drones off the backs of these planes. In the 1960s, they’re flying at the edge of space where they need pressure suits and the sky above them is all pitch black. Except these secret astronauts could not tell anyone what they were doing when they died in a fiery crash or got shot down over enemy territory. Their families might never get the real story. It’s also why it’s all out there in the desert. Area 51 is just one small piece of a much, much larger government testing area known as the Nevada Test and Training Range, or NTR. It includes the site where America tested its atomic bombs. It includes multiple flight ranges, electronic combat ranges, Area 25, Area 6, Area 13, and of course, Area 51. Altogether, NTR forms a secret off-limits area, roughly the size of Connecticut.
Jeorg: It is huge, and that’s what always blows people away, especially from Europe, where countries tend to be a little smaller. You can put some European countries in there and they would disappear. Area 51 is so, it’s tucked away, a restricted area inside a restricted area.
Dylan: So in short, as far as Jeorg can tell, Area 51 is where we fly and test weird stuff. Planes, drones, radar systems, electronic warfare. And Jeorg listens.
Jeorg: Right now I’m running, let’s see, one, two, three, four, five scanners listening to various aspects of radio traffic at Area 51. Mostly, test flights happen at night, so I’m recording at night. So in the morning when I have my cup of coffee, I’m listening to, okay, let’s see what’s happening at Area 51 that night.
Dylan: Only the stuff they don’t mind people hearing, of course. They do have entirely secure channels. And just because Jeorg can eavesdrop does not mean he’s gonna be visiting anytime soon.
Jeorg: Make no mistake, if you cross that boundary, all hell is going to break loose. I have never done it. I have no intention of ever doing it, but there are actually videos on YouTube, what happens to people that do try it. It’s not good.
Dylan: So just to know before you go: Do not go. But as it turns out, even if you keep your distance, all hell can still break loose. For 30 years, Area 51 remained effectively a secret. It was not something folks were talking about casually. But when the Air Force took over from the CIA in the 1970s, they really beefed up security to the point where people started asking, what the hell is going on out there?
Jeorg: They really stepped up security. They grabbed more land. They were very aggressive patrolling the perimeter. And I think that more than anything got people’s interest. So in a way, I think the Air Force really is to blame for the heightened interest in Area 51.
Dylan: By the late 1980s, it was everywhere. There were TV specials, lots of chatter, and even a very unreliable witness who claimed to have seen aliens at Area 51. And in 1993, The X-Files started.
Jeorg: Like you flipped the switch, everybody came out here. They came out here in tour buses to see Area 51. And of course, at that point, all stops were pulled.
Dylan: The tourist buses were at the very least, probably pretty annoying to the people on the base. But the distraction could have its uses. Better people talking about aliens than what kind of metal alloy new stealth planes were made of.
Jeorg: Their cover story kind of backfired, but they ran with it. And it is my understanding that back in the ’90s, they actually put on light shows at the base for the benefit of people that came out watching.
Dylan: No.
Jeorg: I can’t prove it. This is something that was told to me by someone that I trust. But they would actually do light shows, you know, just flash lights in the hills and this and that.
Dylan: Since the very beginning of America’s secret spy plane projects, this interest in UFOs has been both a real nuisance and an asset.
Jeorg: Even back then, they furthered the UFO folklore. Sometimes airline pilots would see these spy planes above them, and there wasn’t supposed to be anything above them because they were flying as high as they thought at the time possible. What better way to explain it than, oh, it’s a UFO. So, that’s always been a great cover story.
Dylan: In a way, it’s easy to dismiss all of this. Like, Area 51, secret planes, yada, yada, yada. Like, despite being highly secure, there’s a surprising amount you can find out about Area 51. Go on Google Maps, search Area 51. Ta-da! There it is. Today, in the always-present conspiracy environment of the internet, Area 51 feels kind of retro. Like, The X-Files are ancient at this point. There are newer, shinier conspiracy theories to take center stage. And, like, there aren’t even aliens? Do you think, is it foolish to think that there’s lots of secret stuff still happening at Area 51? Wouldn’t they have just moved it all somewhere else?
Jeorg: Yeah, I get that question a lot. No, Area 51 is not going anywhere. The base is, at this point, so well-developed in various aspects, there’s so much infrastructure there that it would be almost impossible to replicate. It works. What they don’t want us to know, we will never know.
Dylan: And if you want more proof that the government still really doesn’t want you to know what’s going on in Area 51, just ask Jeorg.
Jeorg: I heard shouting, “Jeorg Arnul, this is the FBI. We have a search warrant.” Whoa, okay.
Dylan: In 2022, in a scene that very much resembles something out of The X-Files, SWAT teams made up of FBI officers and members of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations raided York’s house in Rachel, Nevada, and an apartment he keeps in Las Vegas. Both he and his girlfriend were held and questioned.
Jeorg: They spun me around, slammed me into the wall, put my hands behind my back, handcuffed me, dragged me out of my own house, shoved me into one of their vehicles. Before I even really knew what was happening. It was so overwhelming that at this point, I’m just reacting. I was not in control of the situation and proceeded to interrogate me.
Dylan: Do you have any thoughts on why then, like, do you have any idea? I don’t know. It’s wild to me.
Jeorg: Yeah, I do, actually. I think someone way high up in the food chain of the Air Force got wind of my website and didn’t like what he saw.
Dylan: All of his computers, cameras, scanners, all of it was taken. Two years later, he has yet to be charged with anything or shown the full warrant. But one thing that surprised me—and I appreciate it when talking to Jerog—is that he’s quite patriotic. He’s definitely curious about Area 51, but he also genuinely sees its purpose and its value to the security of the country.
Jeorg: I just want to, you know, state it, there is a good reason for the security at Area 51. It’s not to keep the technology from us, from the American people, but it is my technology. It is technology that is, that must be kept away from falling into the hands of our enemy.
Dylan: Still, the experience kind of changed things for Jeorg.
Jeorg: They wanted to send a message to the Area 51 research community to back off. And they thought, okay, if they harass me, I might say just enough to make people back off. Well, I’m here to tell people, no reason to back off. We are not doing anything illegal.
Dylan: So Jeorg is still there. In Rachel, Nevada, still listening, still checking in on last night’s flight tests over morning coffee, still learning new things. And even though Area 51 might be kind of passé these days, yesterday’s news on the conspiracy circuit, Area 51 is still very much right there, too. And weird stuff is definitely still happening.
Jeorg: They’re building a radio tower. And, you know, the funny thing is—this is a really funny story and it kind of freaked me out a little bit—when I first discovered that radio station, I posted about it in my forum. And at the time, it was playing elevator music, what I call elevator music. And I posted that, you know, I would much prefer heavy metal music. And as soon as I posted this, the station switched to heavy metal music. Now this was pure coincidence, but it got my attention, I can tell you that.
Dylan: That was Jeorg Arnu. He runs a really, honestly, it’s such a great website, dreamlandresort.com. If you are at all interested in this, you should go check it out. He also recently started a YouTube channel. That radio station is for testing passive radar systems, by the way. Jeorg would really want me to note that. Anyway, if you want to learn more or even help Jeorg out, go to dreamlandresort.com. He’s definitely looking for the next generation to help pick up his work. I want to give a huge thank you to Ryan Broderick and the podcast Panic World. It is a great show. It was Ryan and his team who introduced me to the existence of Jeorg, who sent me down this path. You should definitely go check out Panic World and listen to the episode where Ryan and I talk about Area 51. We talk about that disastrous 2019 Facebook raid of Area 51. Maybe you remember it. Anyway, to go hear that conversation, subscribe to Panic World now. We will put a link in the show notes. Last but not least, you cannot and should not try to go to Area 51, but there are plenty of lovely places nearby to go and watch the stars. And who knows, maybe you’ll even see something weird flying through the night sky.
Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major podcast apps.
Our podcast is a co-production of Atlas Obscura and Stitcher Studios. The people who make our show include Doug Baldinger, Chris Naka, Kameel Stanley, Johanna Mayer, Manolo Morales, Baudelaire, Amanda McGowan, Alexa Lim, Casey Holford, and Luz Fleming. Our theme music is by Sam Tindall.
